Curse

around · Jun 20, 2006, 09:08 AM // 09:08

At the moment, we're using 5 spikers, an n/mo whose primary job is as amartyr healer, a boon prot and a bonder. However, we're having serious problems protecting our monk/necro backline. The enemy warriors just bypass our rangers and go straight for the monks, which we expect, but unfortunately we can't do anything about it.

Can anyone help?

JR · Jun 20, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

As a spike build that largely sacrafices utility for offense, this will always be a problem. The only real suggestion is for you to spike down the Warriors when they over-extend to get your Monks.

Also; why do you have FIVE spikers? Four is usually a safe bet for a strong spike, five is just serious overkill. I would normally suggest dropping one for a utility chracter of some kind, but it seems like you might need that slot for a flag runner...

Patrograd · Jun 20, 2006, 09:59 AM // 09:59

The usual configuration is

4 rangers
one boon
one healer
one bonder with orders and martyr
one flagger, usually a water ele

I have seen some builds using five rangers and no orders, but this means you pretty much have to drop the bonder. In this situation you need to have two boon prots

Ranger spike, especially without a bonder has only really got one defence, and that is its spike. There isnt usually quite enough damage to spike down a warrior unless he is beyond healing range, meaning that you quickly have to take down enemy casters, against a good team you cant afford to miss a single spike, and in the meantime your two monks have to be good at kiting and good at taking care of each other. if one of them isnt being hit by a warrior then he knows, with 100% certainty, that the other one is, and he should react accordingly. it is the job of these two to keep themselves alive until your rangers have done their business. You simply cannot do this with just one active primary monk imo

JR · Jun 20, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrograd

The usual configuration is

4 rangers
one boon
one healer
one bonder with orders and martyr
one flagger, usually a water ele

DEER ran with a R/Mo with Martyr and Purge Conditions, the Bonder had OoB and Order Of Pain. I assume with this set up they could spike more often as it was far less energy intensive for the bonder.

lord of shadow · Jun 20, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

doesnt a bonder seriously limit your movement - which is difficult to manage in a spike anyway

i've seen quite a few people running 4 spikers, a n/mo and 2 boons- who the nec supports with br

Edit: yeah and then a flagger

Boofhead · Jun 20, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

5 spikers makes it easier to deal with splits.

Aiiane · Jun 20, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boofhead

5 spikers makes it easier to deal with splits.

There's no point adding the capability to deal with splits if your backline crumbles easily in a straight-up fight.

Phoenix Arrows · Jun 21, 2006, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Deer's build was pretty nice, involving 2 R/W's with Charge and Shields Up, a R/Me with Crippling Shot and enchantment removal, and a R/Mo with Martyr and Purge as spikers. There was an E/Mo flag runner (IIRC) a bonder with Order of Pain, and some other stuff :P. I don't remember that well. But anyways, it was effect at dealing with Warriors with the Crippling Shot and Watch Yourself involved in that build, as well as the E/Mo.

Patrograd · Jun 21, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord of shadow

doesnt a bonder seriously limit your movement - which is difficult to manage in a spike anyway

When a spike team is dealing with a split, the enemy will habitually stay away from the damage group, so you dont need really any monk support in that group. What you do is you split with your 4 rangers and your bonder/orders in one group, and the monks and e/mo in the other. The smaller group doesnt get bonds in split, but they dont really need them anymore anyway, and the bigger group has almost no healing apart from bonds, but the other guys will run a mile at the sight of this group anyway.

basically with this split, in my experience, you can send the three back to your bodyguards and the five can go and win the game very, very quickly. It becomes, instead of chasing splits around the map in the way that [SaS] used to, a gank race. R-Spike is usually pretty good at gank races.